Curse

Lishy · Nov 20, 2009, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Lately I've been interested in starting an Elementalist.
However, I hear they aren't the best damage dealers at all. At the same time, I know they deal with spreaded damage. I always seem to take with Cynn when I h/h, so I decided to give them a look.

When I tried them out with Air magic though, I noticed that they deal a lot less damage than my warrior on the 100 armor targets though. And casting times along with recharges seem to equal up to not enough damage output within a certain amount of time compared to my warrior.

So I turned to see what support they can do for the team. Long story made short, I think AP Eruption looks amazing. And churning earth in HM looks like it will be epic rofllulz, but I haven't confirmed to see whether or not it knocks them down.
However, wards are meh, the rest of earth magic forces you to move into adjacent range to hit, and water magic is a complete and utter joke for PvE outside FoCway.

Lastly, Fire Magic, as said by others, looks appealing, but as soon as you fight a 100 armor target, its uselessness skyrockets. Furthermore, a lot of high end enemies (Titans and destroyers) are resistant to fire damage and burning. Not only that, but even if enemies don't scatter from skills like Breath of Fire(Which has always been crappy due to recharge), the total damage output is never enough.

Am I doing anything wrong? I'm interested in Eles, but they seem useless for PvE.
Could anyone give me any tips to playing them efficiently? And if I'm doingitwrung, explain to be how to use the four elemental attributes properly in PvE?

I checked the guide, but it was outdated a bit and it's more for fun toys than serious play.

Teysar kitait · Nov 20, 2009, 06:17 PM // 18:17

in HM the main point of an elem wouldn't be damage anyways i'd say.

for damage you'd be using fire for AoE nuking or single target (SF & meteor showers, mind blast & rodgort's) but for me elems seem to be more of a utility class otherwise. whenever i bring my elem heroes i always either use blinding surge or thunderclap, because they can effectively shut down whatever type of foe i'm against.
Water is again not too good for damage, but incredibly useful for snaring enemies to enable other classes to deal damage (think minion bombers or barragers)
Earth is again used for blind (i don't use it at all so i'm not the best person to advise on this.

Elems are also used a fair bit in pvp for snaring/blinding/damage

Basically damage isn't everything

Hope this helps a bit

EDIT: http://guildwarsguru.com/forum/showt...php?t=10314574
There's the guide at the top of the section that explains the uses in much more detail

_Nihilist_ · Nov 20, 2009, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Ether Renewal E/Mo's (extreme Party Prot/Heal) and AP Callers (abusing PvE skills) are about the best an Ele can do in PvE at this point. Water Magic can make for crazy snaring, and Earth Magic is great for Party Support.

Voodoo Rage · Nov 20, 2009, 07:11 PM // 19:11

I was having a sweet time running an AP caller build playing around with a variety of skills.

Glyph of Sacrifice + Meteor Shower/Maelstrom/Eruption

Lishy · Nov 20, 2009, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Can I see some particular builds not already on PvX wiki?
And some of the "popular" earth and water support PvE builds everyone talks about? Everyone says eles are support, but I never see any builds.

As for fire, things like SH seem quite useless to me since there's a wait of around 20 seconds until you can attack again, as opposed to a barrage ranger who can splinter nuke everything with a wait of only 5 seconds. Am I not seeing something? I'm still under the impression they're useless outside of ER and farming builds

MarkusParkus · Nov 20, 2009, 08:43 PM // 20:43

How About Ele/Mes With Pain Inverter And Assasins Promise?
I Have Friends With Those Kinda Builds And Theyre Some Of The Best Players I Know!

Markus.

BrettM · Nov 20, 2009, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkusParkus

How About Ele/Mes With Pain Inverter And Assasins Promise?
I Have Friends With Those Kinda Builds And Theyre Some Of The Best Players I Know!

They must be truly awesome players to have figured out how to run a sin skill like AP on an E/Me bar.

Bloss · Nov 21, 2009, 10:23 AM // 10:23

I know alot of eles, it's not my fav prof. I admit, but they do have potentional. But mainly as support, though in pvp they can also be amazing damage dealers (MB ele is quite big pressure, well as monk I lol at it but due to my r8 fire shield, until they swap targets)
Water is underrated, snares and blurred it's quite nice support.
Fire can deal 'ok' damage, while supporting with like splinter weapon, usually I have free spots.
Earth is amazing defence with blind and wards.
Energy storage can make you different support, I remember a friend going 'support' for us, hitting 120+ with barrage and KD foes with it due to his great dwarven weapon was nice (crit sin + own buffs too obviously.) And at the same time he pumped out huge heals. (ether renewal infuser)
But if you wanna deal plain damage, imo you're better of with other profs, I find physical quite powerfull (well melee and bows) since they have shitload of ways to buff: aura of holy might, order of pain/the vampire, ebon vanguard battle thingie, I am the strongest, etc. but discord apperently beats everything anyways, which eles can be nice callers for, nicer than some other profs imo.

Xenomortis · Nov 21, 2009, 10:48 AM // 10:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

Can I see some particular builds not already on PvX wiki?
And some of the "popular" earth and water support PvE builds everyone talks about? Everyone says eles are support, but I never see any builds.

As for fire, things like SH seem quite useless to me since there's a wait of around 20 seconds until you can attack again, as opposed to a barrage ranger who can splinter nuke everything with a wait of only 5 seconds. Am I not seeing something? I'm still under the impression they're useless outside of ER and farming builds

If a human ele was to join my group at the moment, the only thing that ele would be running is ER.
Simply put, anything else is pretty much redundant. That ele could run Earth magic and do some damage and some defense, but they might as well run ER and let the others do some real damage. They can also power GDW really nicely.

The trouble is, the insane armour boosts in the later game and hard mode render the Elementalist's damage output rather pitiful in comparison to others. Short of AP-Sin spam (which does work rather nicely) or capitalising on their AoE knockdown options (just stick GDW on a derv or sin to get that, so even then...) then they're better being something else.

As a henchmen, they're ok and would be fine as a hero if hero slots weren't so precious.

And because there isn't a good ER bar on PvXwiki last time I looked:
ES: 12+1+2/3
Prot: 12
Healing: whatever you have left (3)

Ether Renewal, Glyph of Swiftness, Aura of Rest, Infuse, Spirit Bond, Prot Spirit, Life Attunement, optional.

Optional can be Shield Guardian, GDW or another small heal (vig spirit - drop prot and raise healing. If you're running with cons then you can drop GoS.
It's possible to run Prot Bond and if you have cons and 2 ERs, then PB is a solid choice if the Eles are confident.

ElnoreVarda · Nov 21, 2009, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Xeno; You can bond a whole team with PB without cons, its just that you cant carry carry them on your shoulders. With cons, one ER can do all PBs without any problems to speak about. With 2 ERs and cons, you really need to fack up or do something really stupid to fail.

Lishy · Nov 23, 2009, 04:42 AM // 04:42

So basically, outside of AP support builds and ER healing, making a ele is useless outside of farming?
Thanks, and I hope they get buffed. Maybe I'll make one anyways just for the lulz of it.

Daesu · Nov 23, 2009, 06:40 AM // 06:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

So basically, outside of AP support builds and ER healing, making a ele is useless outside of farming?
Thanks, and I hope they get buffed. Maybe I'll make one anyways just for the lulz of it.

In HM, even though elemental damage is greatly reduced, the utility that I get from Earth magic is still worth it. Ward against Melee to protect your caster backline, Eruption for blind, and Churning Earth does KD moving foes in HM.

This is what I use:

[build prof=E/A ear=12 ene=10 dead=8][Assassin's Promise]["You Move Like a Dwarf!"][Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support]["Finish Him!"][Glyph of Lesser Energy][Churning Earth][Eruption][Ward Against Melee][/build]

With AP+PvE skills combined with your earth magic, the damage is not that bad in general even in HM. AP makes skill recharges go away which boosts your damages and when combined with GoLE also helps to maintain your energy.

Desert Rose · Nov 25, 2009, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

So basically, outside of AP support builds and ER healing, making a ele is useless outside of farming?

Besides a few exceptions that pretty much covers it; eles are supporters, and supporters tend to be inferior in PvE.